How we're going to assemble our 2010 World Cup team, and how we're going to raise funds to send the team as well

[Julien Beaumier-Ethier]

Hello everyone,

I'm sorry for being late with this. I've been working hard recently and I kind of forgot the deadline.

Anyway, I've been thinking a lot about the World Cup team selection, and I have talked about it with some good players from Canada, to discuss with them about having a selection process that would give us the best team possible.

First of all, I agree with you that having a qualification to select our national champions for the next ITSF World Championship would be very difficult because of Canada's superficy. However, I'm one of those who think that a qualification tournament, or a series of qualification tournaments is the only way to select the best players in Canada while keeping the selection process the most fair possible to all canadian players. Unfortunately, I did not have time to think about a specific way to earn money for the team but I guess sponsorship could help us (in Quebec, there's already compagnies who sponsor A.Q.B.B. tournament like BlackKnight, Red Bull etc.). Also, according to the 2006 world cup website http://www.tischfussball-wm-2006.de/eng_infos.html , the 10 team members get their place tickets and accomodations paid so it's going to help us.

Now, I'm gonna expose what is my idea about how we should select our team. I'm not going to go deeply in the formalities, because I wanted to start an open discussion about my idea.

Basically, there are two scenarios possible (don't forget we have to select 6 men, 2 women, and 2 extra players (1 man and 1 women):

1-
Having a 1 week-end qualification tournament in a specific place in Canada. This week-end would be separated in two different qualfication tournaments. On the first day, we would run two round-robin tournaments (one for the men, one for the women) on Canada's home table. I'm just throwing an arbitrary number, but at the end of this day, we could select the top 10 men and the top 4 women, based on the final ranking. This first draft would give us the strongest players of Canada on our home table, which is very important in a multitable tournament. Also, this first qualification would give a chance to the best players in Canada to have a so-so tournament, and probably have a chance to truly qualify the day after.

On the second day, we could run a second qualfication tournament, with the same round robin format, with only the top 10 men and the top 4 women of the last day. But this time, this second qualification would be multitable (on Tornado, Bonzini and Garlando World Championship model so we respect the multitable aspect of Canada). At this point, the top 7 men and the top 3 women would be the one who would represent our country.

2-
Instead of having only a one week-end qualfiication tournament at one specific place in Canada, we could run a pre qualification tournament in East and in West, on the Canada's home table. This way, it could dispense to too many players of having to travel to the final qualification. Then, the best players of East and West would have to finally compete in the one week-end qualification tournament as explained earlier.


I know it's gonna be expensive for some to travel to a qualification tournament, but I don't think we have another choice to make it fair to everyone and to have the best team possible. We don't really have choice to set up a battle between the players from East and West to find who are the best players to represent us. Plus, this selection process would give us a really good feel of who are the best players on Canada's home table while being the best players when we speak about quick adaptation on different kind of tables, which is definitely important in a multitable tournament.

Feel free to post your thoughts.

[Mario Iannuzzi]

Who...are...you? And no one can have a smokin push - I want proof!

While we're at it, I'd also like some money, a magic carpet, and one of those really cool new Porsche 911's.

[Eric Dunn]

then go here

http://tablesoccerca.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=1985405%3ATopic%3...

and put in your app - only 1 day left!!!

[Karlitos]

Mario A. brought some good points.

In my opinion, if TSAC raise money, it should NOT be to send a team to World Championships. It should be spend in promoting the sport to grow the player base. If until 2010 it succeeds and can also pay some of the trip.. that would be cool for sure. But TSAC should focus on developping it and spending money in sending a team to a tournament wouldn't be profitable for the sport at first.

For the trip, depending of the timeframe and the way the team would be selected, the players in the team should work to get some sponsors. TSAC could help them by bringing the "National" vision to sponsors.

The way i see it, players will have to pay for their trip except if TSAC has improved alot since then...

There should be some tournaments from TSAC that would keep points all over Canada (no matter the table). A tourney for the next 2 years should be discussed for the qualification.

What needs to be done:
- Select the "TSAC" tourney criteria
- Select the tournaments criteria to be part of the tourney
- Select the way results of those tournaments will result for qualification on the team
- Get the team up
- Players find sponsors with the help of the TSAC so their trip won't be too expensive

A Canadian tourney to qualify players to a National Team qualification tournament would be the best.

Outside the World Championships, i do think a work should be done to improve the actual player base. Can TSAC provides us with some numbers of the actual player base in Canada from the survey people filled?

[Eric Dunn]

We're currently registered with 182 players under the ITSF (this number came from a combination of the ottawa foos and aqbb events, plus those players that registered to vote when TSAC first assembled)..

So far 51 people have responded to the survey! (Thanks to everyone that did by the way) I'll be publishing the results pretty soon (as soon as i get around to it and figure out how google docs lets me do that)

but i'm sure there are more players in Canada than 182. What that number is - is really hard to say, i'd assume somewhere around to 3-400 mark if we count the really casual yet still competitive players. but that's just a guess.

[Michael Tremblay]

Ok, I'll try to expose what was said on the quebecbabyfoot forum that was not exposed here. Actually, almost all of those who spoke on our forum spoke here too. My opinion is very similar to the one of Julie Mathews and Jean-Christophe Ghibaudo. I won't claim that I speak entirely for them but I think they will agree with most of what I expose here.

I think that the best way to assemble our 2010 World Cup team is a comitee. But on the contrary of 2006, it would be a fair comity. First we need to focus on the fact that Canada is a too large country to have a serious and fair tour. Same thing for qualification tournaments. Also, a team has to be thought, not imposed. We need to identify who would be the best element in it and in which circumstances.

There is also the situation of the home table. I think it's time to understand that we can't take for granted that Tornado would be our home table simply because most of our best players play on that table. We now have pro-masters on Bonzini as long as on Tornado. Moreover, the team that won in 2006, Austria, did not win because of its table but because they were able to play efficiently on other tables. And look at the team that were theoretically unbeatable on their table, France and USA. None of them reached the final.

We need to focus on multi-table players and on a team in which the chemistry would be excellent.

[Julien Beaumier-Ethier]

I'd be open to work on the idea of nominating a "fair" comitee who would be in charge of proposing players to be on the team. I'm just wondering how we could make sure that this comitee is really fair. Maybe we could ask the TSAC executive to approve the team selection or something like that. However, if we'd do this, it would probably appear as a problem to have someone who is selected on the team and who is also on the TSAC executive (for example, Eric Dunn). Anyway, I understand your point of view about the difficulty of having a tour or qualification tournaments.

Concerning this point:

here is also the situation of the home table. I think it's time to understand that we can't take for granted that Tornado would be our home table simply because most of our best players play on that table. We now have pro-masters on Bonzini as long as on Tornado. Moreover, the team that won in 2006, Austria, did not win because of its table but because they were able to play efficiently on other tables. And look at the team that were theoretically unbeatable on their table, France and USA. None of them reached the final.

No offense to you Michael, but I don't agree with you on this one. Actually, I don't think the AQBB ranking system has enough credibility to pretend that the top 5 Bonzini players in Quebec are considered Pro-Master at the game of table soccer. The only exception, in my honest opinion, would be Jean-Christophe Ghibodau (for those who don't know him, he has moved in Quebec 2-3 years ago for work... he used to be one of the best Bonzini players in France... he already did a top 3 in a German Bonzini tournament, just below Frederic Collignon and Tom Van de Cauter).

Even if we have some good Bonzini players, I still think we would have a stronger team with the Tornado table. Just an example... in the general AQBB ranking (combining single and double points), Dominic Auger is ranked 4th and I am ranked 9th (http://quebecbabyfoot.com/index.php?page=classement&t=general). As far as I know, me and Dominic are one of the few who practice almost only on the Tornado table and who go to Tornado tournaments in USA. Also, we are both ranked top 3 on the TornadoQuebec ranking (http://www.tornadoquebec.ca/rankings.php). However, we are still considered as Rookie when we go to IFP tournaments. That means we are still far from being Pro/Pro-Master.

As you know, we currently have 4 Pro-Masters in Canada (Eric, Mario, Kane, Moya) and few Pros (Olavo, Taha and some others in West... sorry guys I don't know you), so it would makes sense to have Tornado as the home table and to have those players on it.

Concerning the fact that USA and France did not do well at the last World Cup, I would put it on the fault of the lack of multitable experience. As you know, Eric, Mario, Kane, Moya and Olavo have a lot of experience because some of them attended to the last World Cup, several ITSF World Championships and some Garlando, Lehmacher and EuroSoccer tournaments in Europe. Also, Taha has proven in the last years that he could compete at a high level on the Bonzini table, while being a very strong player on the Tornado table (he did a lot of top 3 in open events in Quebec Bonzini tournaments).

I'm sorry Michael, but I don't see why we should choose another table than the Tornado as the home table.

[Mario A.]

What as a Country do we want to come from this tournament?
Do we just want to win?
Or do we want to use this as a tool to expand our player base?
If we were to win the World team event what would it do for Canada?

Having a committee choose the players for this team looks like our only choice as of right now. It’s a shame that it’s coming to this again. It seems late to start a tour to bring Canada together. We have to start a tour regardless. The thing with a committee is its going to be extremely difficult to choose players for this team. You will never get support from the people and it’s only going to create even more space with in Canada.

The reason why Austria won was because all there players are great players on every table. Germany was the same thing they played great on all tables. France played amazing on bonzini and was ok on Tornado. On Garlando they were week tech ball and Roberto sport same thing. Belguim has the best player in the world on all tables and they have a strong team on all tables as well.

In order to win you truly have to be the best well rounded team. All the players on the team have to play incredible well on there home table and they have to be able to steel games on other tables. You can’t take away from your home table. If someone is great on Bonzini and just ok on all other tables then he doesn’t do you much good. Yes he would be great if we played France or Germany or Belgium. What about the other 13 countries. If you play him in singles he has a 50/50 chance at beating the Bonzini master but then when it comes to our home table he might have a 40/60 percent chance to win on Tornado.

How many Bonzini Pro Master are there in Canada?
How many Bonzini players in Canada can beat any Bonzini player in the World?
How many Bonzini players are great multi table players? Meaning they can beat or compete at a high level with the top 20 players on other tables.

[Mario A.]

And it starts. That's what I love to see Great job Chris. We got Warrior coming into town. Now that’s a positive step in the right direction. I guess the tour has started. It could definitely be an ITSF table in the future. 2010 South Africa Warrior could be our table. I guess we will wait and see.

[Eric Dunn]

Yes we'll have to watch the acceptance of Warrior as an ITSF table very carefully, cause you're right, the timing might just fit it in around the time of the World Cup.

[Eric Dunn]

I tend to agree with what Michael has said that we should not assume that our home table is Tornado. (remember he is relaying what his players are saying on their message board - they might not be his personal opinions)
I also agree with Mario that this opportunity should be used to promote table soccer in canada, have something for players to look forward to.

In a perfect world we would run a series of qualifers that would qualify players to play in a multi-table national finals. Where the top players at the multi-table final would earn spots on the team.

Yes some can argue that this is not possible - but i find that hard to beleive if we just work together, stick some tables in the back of a truck and get them all in one location, we can run a multi-table event under the same format as the world cup would be run - round robin followed by single elim - I don't buy the arguement that 'what if someone has a bad day' - well that's too bad, and if that person is likely to have a bad day when it counts, then how are they doing to perform under the real pressure of the world cup. This is what competition at the highest level is all about - performing when it matters.

I also don't agree with the argument about forcing players to travel - that's what players do - the players that have the international exposure, are already traveling. Yes it would be great if we could award trips to the qualifiers, but as many can see that is just not a reality at this point, and is not likely to be next year either. Also given the fact that many people have spoken up and think that if players want to be a part of the team, then they should pay their own way to the world cup as well. These same players that can afford to travel to the world cup can likely afford to travel within canada. Although the survey results show a different thought - where the majority of players said that TSAC should endevour to figure out ways to pay for the team to travel to the world cup.

If we plan and announce these things far enough in advance, then work can 'worked' around, so people can take days off if need be. We can also plan to take school into consideration as well.

I really don't like the idea of doing this by comitee - i feel we (TSAC) must provide some sort of competitive playing field for people to earn spots on the team. If the discussion continues to go that way, then i'm (and likely others on the exec) are going to have to remove ourselves from the discussion due to an obvious conflict of interest.

If we do run this multi-table final event, then the players that finished the highest have proven that they are Canada's best multi-table players, and they can decide what table the team wants for its home table.

I'd imagine we could have some singles spots to be earned, and a doubles team (or two) would earn spots We need 6 guys and 2 girls.

I'd also think it makes sense to host this event somewhere in the east, as that is where the bulk of the bonzini and garlando tables are.

Will this likely assemble Canada's strongest team - possibly not. But i think it's the right thing to do. It removes the issue of what table - it allows everyone in Canada a chance to qualify for the team - on their own table - and they'd have to be good on the other tables as well to earn final spots.

I think we can do this in 2009, and have the team assembled and named late 2009, to allow those that won their spots enough time to prepare - arrange travel, etc. and possibly even allow the team to practice together. We wouldnt want to do it too far in advance, but we can't leave it till last minute either.

[Michael Tremblay]

Just to precise my point about the level of our bonzini players, I want to clarify something. I don't base my analysis on any ranking system because none of those that I know are accurate enough. I actually look at the performance of some players in international events. In France, this year, two of our players, Marc et Laurent, lost to two great and experienced players, Davy Dehoest and Tim Ludwig. Otherwise, they did beat several pro players. We also have to take into account that they played in a perfect environment for a competition -good tables, high player level.

I would tend to do the same about Tornado. What made me think that Eric Dunn is currently the best candidate this year to represent Canada in Italy is the fact that he came 5th in Open Double in Vegas in March, which is the second biggest event on Tornado. It's not where he is ranked. I think we need to focus on some performances that were made by the players in some specific tournaments. If we take the case of Mario Ariganello, that would be the same. I don't care where he is ranked, but I know, like many others, all the good result he made in the past years, especially the final in Italy againt the belgians in a multi-table event. That kind of record is really more signigicant for me.

[Mario A.]

I realize that it’s difficult to rank bonzini players because you have to go to France in order to play in world class competition. It’s easier to do that with Tornado because we just have to go to the USA and we are playing world class competition. 1 tournament a year will never rank you properly. Especially if you lose 1 series and your out. That sucks. I know Jean-Christophe Ghibodau is a great bonzini player and he is getting better on Tornado. I don’t know much of Marc et Laurent games but I would think they are good to accomplish what they did in France. I know your game is very good on Bonzini and good on all tables it’s very difficult to prove it with 1 tournament a year. My question to you because I don’t know there games, How well do they play on other tables? Tornado and others.

I really hope it doesn’t go to the committee because there is going to be a lot of upset people. I’m just surprised no one has been speaking out about this. Especially out West. A multi table tournament would definitely be the best way to go. It would truly be the easiest way to pick the team. I would think we would only need 2 tables Bonzini and Tornado to do this. From what I know in Montréal the garlando tables are still red white and blue square men.